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About Deviant Member dannysulingMale/United States Group :iconfetishvsbullying: Fetishvsbullying
We Shall Overcome!
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Interrupting the normal flow of topics that I refer to in this journal, I'm just letting watchers and visitors to this gallery know that over on my other gallery (bandmachart) I have just uploaded a bunch of additional drawings. Please do visit…and enjoy!

Now, back to the more/less important business at hand….

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dannysuling
dannysuling
United States

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:icondarkstalker1:
darkstalker1 Featured By Owner 6 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thank you for your comment on 'Super-Slave-Girl' :happybounce: 
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:icondannysuling:
dannysuling Featured By Owner 5 days ago
She mine, I tell you! Mine! Mine! Mine! Everyone else, keep your hands off….

Now, if only my shipment of customized kryptonite bondage toys would arrive….
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:icondarkstalker1:
darkstalker1 Featured By Owner 5 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Please take a numbered ticket and join the queue.
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:icondannysuling:
dannysuling Featured By Owner 5 days ago
Rats!
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(1 Reply)
:iconsebaselciclon:
sebaselciclon Featured By Owner May 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hello Dannyslung!.

I have a question, very deeply related to BDSM.
A long time ago, I asked about "subspace" on a web-forum, and they did explain me quite a lot about it, either from doms telling me what they understood as subspace, and subs who felt it first hand. Since then, I have researched a lot, trying to understand it (cause besides loving BDSM, I love psychology as well). What concerned me, is that most doms sounded a little concerned about subspace. One of them did tell me about a session on which his sub entered subspace and the dom started slapping her in the face to get her out of subspace, like if he was concerned of what would happen if she did go any fruther.
I am still uncertain of why would people, particullary doms, fear subspace. Of course, the biggest concern is that your sub cant "safeword" out if a knot is too tight or you are playing too rough, but beyond that, why would it be a concern that your partner goes into subspace for as long as she wants?.

I have decided to ask this to different people to see their oppinions. I have seen you write some very deep and well thought comments arround here on DA (particulary your periodic visits to different artist`s galleries),  so I thought you would give me an intersted and deep anwser to this question.
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:icondannysuling:
dannysuling Featured By Owner May 21, 2014
Hello to you too.

My apologies for not responding quickly. I was unavailable for a week, on holiday. But now I'm back and thinking about your topic.

Actually, a fair amount has been written about subspace. I certainly don't claim to be an expert, so perhaps some other members of the dA community can chime in with good resources). I've never been in subspace, since I'm not a sub, but I have taken a sub there once or twice. I do have some thoughts about it, for what they're worth. But remember, I don't consider myself an expert.

My sense is that the physiological substrate is endorphin-related. Sort of like when a runner gets past "the wall" (I'm a runner) and is able to run longer and with considerable pleasure because the brain is experiencing so many pleasure messages that the physical discomfort recedes way into the background. This analogy is a little crude, but perhaps it'll make sense to some.

A better analogy…and maybe there's a direct relationship…is to trance. Now, I've only gone into trance once in my life (unsupervised, and with consequences that could have been extremely dangerous), but trance is part of many cultures, and is typically well-bounded and understood and valued within a ritual context. The person going into trance is usually "managed" by others whose responsibility is to ensure that no real harm comes to the "entrancee." Moreover, there's usually a well-understood and ritualized approach to helping the person come out of trance safely, too. (There's a lot more to say about trance, and anthropologists and ethnographers have certainly done so; I won't go into more detail here.)

So, now, to subspace. Going into subspace is part of an advanced consensual SM ritual, it seems to me. If subspace is a type of trance, then the person in subspace can no longer be counted on to manage him- or herself. The sub needs someone to oversee, tend to, and nurture the person and the process, to ensure that no real harm can happen, and that the re-emergence from subspace can occur in a non-threatening, integrative, and comfortable way.

Inexperienced doms may not be able to provide this kind of "scene management." And so the risk in serious SM scenarios is twofold:

1. when a sub goes into subspace, the dom might continue behaving in ways that inflict discomfort or pain beyond the sub's true tolerance, and which ultimately does cause serious physical or psychological damage to the sub. Since in subspace the sub's brain is being swamped with endorphins, this person is not psychologically capable of saying "Enough! Stop!" The responsibility for stopping is entirely the dom's. "You gotta know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em." That kind of expertise is critical to successful and consensual SM play.

2. Even if the dom knows when to stop, he/she might not know how to bring the sub safely and gently out of subspace trance and back to full consciousness. This can be a critical problem, since re-entry into the real world, coming back to the recognition that one has engaged in painful and/or extreme sexual behavior (sometimes in public!), and has been "out of control" can be devastating psychologically for some people, especially if it's the first time. But it's the dom's responsibility to provide this assistance, to be a guide in this part of the journey back to the real world. This is part of the ritual role that doms ought to know, but many taking on the role don't realize that they need to do this piece, nor are they particularly good at it.

People of my age remember when LSD entered our social world. Some people had good experiences, some had bad, and for some taking that drug was psychologically devastating. It soon became clear to us that taking LSD shouldn't ever be a "private" solo experience. Someone else needed to be there in case of a "bad trip." That's kind of what I'm talking about with SM, although with SM the role is more structured, more ritualized, and more important (at least, it seems so to me).

To my knowledge, there are workshops offered on how to be a better "dom," which include how to manage a sub in subspace.

Anyway, those are my first group of thoughts. Hope they are helpful.

Best,

Danny
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:iconsebaselciclon:
sebaselciclon Featured By Owner May 22, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Dont worry! I understand, I took my time as well to anwser to all the responses I got from asking this question on other artists profiles (Shiniez, HeartGear and Caregan).
Thank you for anwsering.

Well, from most of what I have heard of other subs, they say that subspace leaves the sub very "vulnerable", and I think that is a good description. The sub is vulnerable to both physical and psicological/emotional damage, if the dom isnt carefull. That being said, I think it isnt that hard to avoid causing damage as long as the dom knows some basics of what subspace is. Basically, on the physical part, avoiding any kind of activity that could cause severe damage (strangulation, an spanking that could cause bleeding or severe damage, and some more hardcore games like using knives or needles, which are not my thing anyway). Its a little bit more concerning for me the psicological/emotional damage. As far as I have read, its a good idea to leave any kind of roleplay out of the question when the sub is in subspace. I mean, on a BDSM scene, the dom can play rough, perhaps doing things like pulling the subs hair and telling her "on your knees!" or other hardcore stuff like that. Altrough its ok to play like that on a BDSM scene, its not a good idea to treath the sub harsh when she is on subspace, as the perosn, on this state, doesnt understand that "its just a game". And such agresive way of talking can be harmfull for her on that situation.

The thing about the "coming back" is what on BDSM I have read that people call "sub-drop". The after effects of the subspace. As far as I have seen, the "after care" isnt that much complicated, in fact is rather obvious: on the physical side, treathing any wounds like burns of rope or marks of a spanking with the proper creams and medications, and on the psycological side, provide a good feeling of company and protection to the sub. Lots of hugs, kisses, nice words and lots of cuddle. Also I have read some really smart advices about what to eat post-subspace (this page gives a lot of good advices, and I was particullary intersted on when it talks about food www.rosecoloredasses.com/sirre… ).

Never heard of workshops that teach about subspace on my country, but now that you mention, I will do a little search see if I find anything.
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:icondannysuling:
dannysuling Featured By Owner May 22, 2014
Sunds like you have been getting some good advice, and I'm delighted to be included among those you asked.

Yes, I have heard the term "sub-drop." It's not used so much among my group, but it's clear that it means "emergence" back into real-time. I'd only stress that it's the dom's responsibility to make this "coming back" as easy and supportive as possible. That's why building it in as a ritual makes things so much easier. So, a good thing to negotiate in advance with your sub: is there anything specific YOUR SUB WANTS you to do during sub-drop. Don't make any assumptions: ask your sub.

Learn to use "quick-release" knots on the ropes you rely on, so that if something doesn't go right, physically OR psychologically, you can free your sub from any bondage within a second or two. This is a skill that's not too hard to master, but it's really important.

And, watch out for gags during BDSM. In fantasies everyone likes to think about the eroticism of a gag, but in reality they can be extremely dangerous if not used carefully. And never, ever leave the presence of a sub while she is gagged.

Anyway, hope all of this homework you've done helps you enjoy engaging in BDSM sex. Be careful, stay healthy, and pay attention…and have fun!
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(1 Reply)
:icongeknebelt:
Geknebelt Featured By Owner May 16, 2014
Hi, obviously I'm not Dannysuling, but maybe I can help with this a bit? 

It does sound odd to me that a dom would be so concerned about subspace that they'd start desperately slapping their sub to snap them out of it. Is it possible you're confusing sub-space with sub-drop? Because if someone is in subspace for a long time for a very intense session, they can 'drop', which, although it isn't 'wrong' to drop, it can be quite stressful because there are a lot of emotions and sensations going on at once and some people can find it overwhelming or maybe get some intense emotional release. 

Maybe the dom you mentioned didn't quite understand sub-space, though? Because assuming they did fear a drop, slapping the person in the face would be the last thing you'd want to do. Maybe the dom was a professional dominatrix who had some sort of policy against sup-space? I don't know much about actual hired dominatrixes, though :D

Anyway, in my experience, when someone is in subspace they still usually have enough control of themselves to safe word out of the situation.

Maybe you should look up things like endorphins or adrenaline, as well as the differences between sup-space and sub-drop. Check out stuff like this: www.rosecoloredasses.com/sirre…
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:iconsebaselciclon:
sebaselciclon Featured By Owner May 16, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Why, obviously, feel free to anwser!.

Oh yeah, it was probably the dom didnt knew nothing about subspace. I did read on some comments that the dom did snap them out of sub-space not cause they didnt wanted their sub to have it, but simply cause they didnt know what was going on (I mean, the effects of sub-space might look like if the person is fadding out or lossing consiousness, which could be extremely dangerous and mean that something is going bad).

I have researched a lot about both sub-space and sub-drop. I am just intersted on hearing more about sub-drop now, as it concerns me a little bit. I have already researched a lot, but I would like to hear your personal opinnion.
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